About Eternal Member Certificates

 

1.0. How many certificate holders have already joined and what is the total amount of the capital raised so far?

In the development and implementation phase of B of Joy we keep this information confidential. For the current players there is too much at stake. When there is enough grass roots support we are a threat to their money making system. However, we try to be as transparent as possible. As soon as the support of volunteers, supporters, sponsors, certificate holders and participants has enough volume, we will hold a general meeting and publish this information.

 

> Update 2023. DOWNLOAD HERE the PDF-file with the letter of the B of Joy founder about the state of affairs. During the Lectures we announce that more than 15.600 people are already connected to our initiative and this in several countries. They are sympathizers (among others via social media, twitter followers not included), volunteers, supporters, donors, Declaration of Peace-, EMC- and Bail-free holders. For more background information go to FAQ 3.5.

 

 

1.1. How many certificates do people buy on average?

It's not about the average. We welcome everybody who contributes towards helping B of Joy (BOJ) to become a truly sustainable bank. If the amount to buy a certificate is too high, it is also possible to become a BOJ supporter for as little as 25 euro.

 

1.2. Is my personal data safely protected after registration and purchase of Member Certificates?

Yes, your data is fully protected. We take care with your data and share no information with third parties.

 

 

1.3. What is the purpose of the deposited money of the Member Certificates?

One of the conditions for the application of an Internet bank license is that, depending on the exchange rate at that time, a cash amount of 1.2 million euro is available as coverage (equity) for the start of the bank. Your money will be used therefore as equity for a solid funding of the bank and stays as such, under the supervision of B of Joy.

 

1.4. What happens when the Internet bank license isn’t granted?

In that case, the money will be, after deduction of the costs incurred, used by the United People Foundation to apply for partial bank permits with the AFM and DNB. With these permits we will, via the cooperative, still be able to offer financial services to all supporters and participants. To be able to create checking and savings accounts (demand deposits) permits are obligatory. The remainder of the money stays within the cooperative, of which you are a part owner, and if you desire, a member for the first year.

 

 

1.5. Can I resell my Eternal Membership Certificates to the United People Foundation?

The Member Certificates are, as the name implies, Eternal. This is the only form of issue possible in the Netherlands for participations under 100,000 euro's. Due to the Act on Financial Supervision, Section 3.5, concerning repayable funds, any other form of participation would entail a licensing obligation, which is very expensive and time-consuming. The form of funding we have chosen was decided in consultation with our tax and legal team. The Member Certificates are numbered, are registered by name, they have a lifelong ownership, but can, at death, be transferred to your rightful heirs. Selling certificates back to the United People Foundation is therefore not possible.

Definition of ‘repayable funds’ According to Section 1:1 of the Financial Supervision Act (Wft), these are funds which must be repayable at any time, for whatever reason, and for which it is clear in advance which nominal amount has to be repaid. Such funds might, for instance, be the borrowing of money (a given amount) or the issue of a bond. Funds obtained by the issuance of shares are not repayable funds: there is no obligation to repay the nominal amount for shares. Source: De Nederlandsche Bank article on legal clause Wft 3:5.

 

 

1.5.1. Why is the B of Joy Eternal Membership Certificate not redeemable or transferable?

Question: It feels oppressive to me that an Eternal Membership Certificate (EMC) is not claimable or transferable. I don't feel the need to claim the value, but suppose I want to get rid of it for whatever reason. Why am I not allowed to transfer the EMC or destroy it if necessary? And why isn't the EMC just passed on to the bank when I die? I do not want to burden my relatives at all.

Answer: The Eternal Membership Certificate (EMC) is a certificate that gives the right to a return on invested capital from the B of Joy cooperative that is being set up. The certificate is used to raise capital to be able to finance the cooperative.

United People Foundation (UPF) provides the issuance of EMC’s exclusively for its own and upcoming cooperatives. EMC holders build the equity of the cooperatives under good conditions. The EMC’s create a collective financing option for working capital and resources, which is used to invest in the UPF goals, including an internet banking license.

According to Dutch law it is not possible to collect capital below 100,000 euros per person (for example by issuing certificates) without a banking license. The only real exception to this is if it is explicitly established that the capital invested by the depositary receipt holder is not redeemable and transferable.  

Non-repayable means it is not legally possible to request a refund. Once money has been deposited for an EMC, this will remain the eternal capital of UPF and its affiliated cooperatives.  

Non-transferable means that the EMC holder cannot transfer the certificate to a third party. This is to prevent constructions to make the capital redeemable by transferring it to, for example, a family member. One exception is possible, namely a transfer via inheritance law. The same rules also apply to the heirs that the EMC’s are not claimable and transferable unless the EMC is transferred again pursuant to inheritance law.

The non-repayability and the inability to transfer is essential for raising capital. Any infringement or exception by UPF to this rule endangers the entire manifestation.

You can choose to turn your EMC into a gift in the event of death. You can record this in your will. In that case, you will be deleted from the EMC register after your death and the EMC capital will be converted into a gift. In this way you do not have to burden the heirs.

 

 

1.6. What are my returns after I invested in the Eternal Member Certificates of B of Joy?

Once B of Joy (BOJ), as a full-reserve cooperative community bank (under formation), has got an Internet bank license, it will start working as a savings and investment bank. BOJ does not work with interest. The activities of the bank are cost-effective and revenue is generated. The revenues are paid out annually to the holders of the certificates. We call these returns on investment F.E.E.S, because the returns of the activities, in addition to Financial benefits, also have Ecological, Emotional and Social benefits. These core values contribute to the higher goals of BOJ.

 

 

1.7. Can member certificates be bought only once or multiple times?

You can buy member certificates as often as you want. This does not affect your voting rights. You always have one single vote within the cooperative. If there are changes in the issuance policy of member certificates, we'll inform you by e-mail, newsletter and/or we’ll announce it on our websites.

 

 

1.8. How can I purchase a Membership Certificate for family, friends or others? Is there a minimum age requirement?

For the purchase of the B of Joy Member Certificates one must be 18 years of age or older. However, Member Certificates can be donated to third parties of all ages. The purchase form ALL PERSONAL DATA is then completed concerning the individual to whom the Member Certificates are to be donated/issued.

ATTENTION: If you already participate in The B of Joy and have your own UPF account, you can NOT USE these for donations to third parties. You will then have to create a new USERNAME and an E-MAILADRES yourself. Click here to create a free email account quickly and easily.
 
You will receive a payment confirmation and all other information on the new e-mail account in order to be able to log in to United People Foundation (UPF) from now on. Finally: The payment of the Member Certificates is of course made on behalf of the donor's bank account. Good luck with the donations!

 

 

1.9. Is it for obtaining the banking license also important that the Member Certificates are bought by many different people? Or does only the limit of about 1.2 million euro matter for obtaining the banking license?

For B of Joy, it is important to have at least 10,000 certificate holders at the start. It forms the critical mass and the necessary base for the cooperative. The more certificate holders have joined, the more powerful the changes will be. To apply for the banking license it is not necessary to reach the number of 10,000 certificate holders. The amount of 1.2 million, however, is of crucial importance.

 

 

1.9.1. As soon as the bank is operational supporters can benefit from a free membership during the first year when they participate. What about the 'Eternal Membership Certificate' (EMC) Holders? Do they have the same right?

No, EMC-holders are joint proprietors and shareholders of the bank's own property. A return will be remitted yearly. EMC-holders are not obliged to membership. However, if an EMC-holder (active) wants to participate in the cooperation society and in the General Member Meeting (GMM), one has to become an actual member. Please refer to webpage concerning the Eternal Member Certificates. The role of the partners resides in the fact that they offer a contribution in the development of the application for a banking license and this without becoming an actual member. By way of thanks for their contribution, and if they wish, they can become a free member for the first year of the B of Joy as soon as the bank is operational. Read more on the 'Supporters' page under the chapter "Realization of the banking license."

 

 

1.9.2. If an EMC holder is not automatically a member of B of Joy in formation, why is an EMC called a member certificate?

Once you made the choice to participate as an EMC holder of B of Joy, you end up on this website: Become an Eternal Membership Certificate Holder. A Cooperative Association (CA) normally issues the so-called Member Certificates to its participants who become co-owners. This is also the case with B of Joy, a CA in formation. Whether these Members participate actively or passively does not play a role in this.

With an active membership you usually pay an annual contribution to the CA. As an active member you can then participate in the General Members Meeting (GMM) and all the facilities that the CA makes available. In case of B of Joy this concerns -  among other things - obtaining a bank card and bank account. All participants in the B of Joy CA in formation are therefore referred to as members in all communications. This also applies to the purchased certificates. Also read: FAQ 2.9.1.

 

 

 

About United People Foundation and B of Joy

  

2.0. Who are behind B of Joy?

In the menu, under the heading: 'About us' you will find some of the core team members who are involved in this initiative. There are also people at B of Joy who have jobs within the current financial system. They cannot reveal their identity yet, otherwise they would lose their job. Our supporters can be found on the website under the menu button 'Joy Supporters'.

 

 

2.1. Is it compulsory to be published with a photo or logo on the Supporters page when certificates are purchased?

No, it is not mandatory, but it is possible for whoever wants to. With this page we give a glimpse behind the scenes and some information about the supporters.

 

2.2. How do you pay for all the expenses within your organization?

Our core team members, volunteers, supporters and donators have already, for many years, invested their own time and money. They put a lot of effort into setting up B of Joy. There are a lot of problems to overcome, but the final goal makes up for all the sacrifices. The United People Foundation manages all financial matters.

 

2.3. Is it necessary to become a certificate holder to provide B of Joy with financial support?

No, you can for example also become a supporter or donator. Besides financial support it is also possible to offer other services as a volunteer. For more information, click here.

 

2.4. Is the United People Foundation a foundation or a cooperative company?

The United People Foundation (UPF) is a foundation which is registered with the Dutch Chamber of Commerce under number 56595220.

 

2.5. Is a certificate holder of B of Joy cooperative personally liable?

B of Joy (BOJ) as community bank has chosen for the cooperative form (under formation). That means you are not personally liable as a Member Certificate holder as long as you respect the rules of United People Foundation, BOJ cooperative and the laws of your country. You can only be held liable for the risk capital you have invested, which is the money you paid for the certificate(s).

 

 

2.6. Which legal personae will be able to open an account with B of Joy? Can a person use the status of ‘Lawful being’ instead of ‘Citizen’ with B of Joy?

Anybody that becomes a member of B of Joy (BOJ) cooperative and possesses a legitimate proof of identity, can soon open an account as a natural person, an association, a foundation or a business. Other possible status names of natural persons or legal entities such as: citizenship, ‘lawful being’, ‘sovereign person of flesh and blood’, etc ... are not relevant for the purposes of services to be rendered by BOJ to the members and part owners of the cooperative.

We are aware of most of the different movements within society and have some knowledge about the goals of organizations such as: Sovereign People of Flesh and Blood and One People’s Public Trust (OPPT). People belonging to these organizations will feel at home within our cooperative, because BOJ can facilitate administrative relief for the benefit of society. In time, many different services will become available through the cooperative. Read also point 3.6.

 

 

2.7. Who’s determining the salaries of all bank-employees? Are bonuses paid as well?

Salaries of bank-employees are determined by the members of the cooperative society during the General Member Meeting (GMM). This will happen according the collective labour agreement for banks. Bonuses are fully non-negotiable. However, the following could happen: During the yearly GMM, the EMC-holders (fellow-owners of the cooperation) will be informed about the rate of return that will have been achieved.

The EMC-holders are free to choose to reinvest 40% through their own bank, for example, in sustainable projects, within the existing economy. Cash 50% as net rate of return and 10% as a gift to the bank-employee. This as a little extra for all of the work performed, which resulted in the actual rate of return. This way an extra stimulus is created toward a maximum of commitment.

 

 

2.8. Is this initiative only applicable to the Dutch market? Or is it possible to participate from abroad?

B of Joy isn’t just for the Dutch market in the Netherlands. The initiative is International. For international participation, go to the page Join us!

 

 

2.9. What will be the yearly contribution for the membership of the European Cooperative?

Based on the B of Joy budget, the General Member’ Meeting (GMM) will determine the amount of the yearly contribution. This is done in order to be able to cover all recurring costs of the European Cooperative (SCE). As an indication we suggest 24 EURO / URA per year of membership. This includes: an euro payment account (IBAN, see phase 2), bank membership card, Digital Internet Banking, pin and mobile payment, access to the URA platform, participation in a procurement-collective (toward savings), a business directory and Marketplace (network and turnover).

The Marketplace includes free advertising. Check the pages Products and The 12 points of change, for all possibilities we can create as a collective. With a participation number of at least 10.000 members, we assume that a yearly 24 EURO / URA is the right sum.

 

 

2.9.1. How do the democratic principles work within the United People and B of Joy?

Concerning the way we generally consider Democracy, please refer to webpage Democracy. More specific, in regard to the B of Joy cooperation under formation: EMC-holders who are member of the cooperation, always have 1 vote within the cooperation, regardless of the number of member-certificates they own.

If B of Joy Supporters prefer to become member of the B of Joy cooperation, they too will always have 1 vote within the cooperation. On the webpage Joy Supporters you can read more about the power of the referendum-right. On the webpage ‘The 12 points of change’ you can read under point 1 and 9:

Point 1. Through binding referendum-right, the population determines what to do. This eliminates wasting and returns constructive energy back to the society.
Point 9. Through the right of referendum in point 1 all the important national, European and global decisions will be made by the society.

 

 

About general money matters

  

3.0. Is it possible to transfer my money on my account at the Rabobank to B of Joy? Or are there still matters which have to be resolved?

At this moment we are not allowed to open saving accounts of under 100.000 euro. We have contacted the AFM for a variety of products. Some products can be found on the Products page. As soon as we have updates about these matters, we will inform you. Keep an eye on our website. With your savings you can already take part by joining B of Joy. You can buy a piece of your own bank. Click here for more information.

 

3.1. Do the letters INGB in the bank account number have something to do with the ING bank?

ING is temporary and probably not ' the best ' choice. We consider Triodos as an option, but her main income is based on interest charges. It is not easy to open a bank account. For example it was not possible with the ASN bank to open a checking account for a foundation. ING helped us quickly and effectively so we opened an account with them. We are open for suggestions for THE TIP for THE BANK acceptable to all B of Joy (BOJ) supporters. ING or the new suggested bank can be used until ‘BOJ’ has the ability to open its own in-house bank accounts for BOJ Cooperative members.

 

3.2. We have ASN, Triodos and SNS as sustainable banks. Why do we need this B of Joy alternative? What are the differences?

1. From the yearly reports of ASN, Triodos and SNS we see that they are earning most of their profits through interest payments. Charging interest is not sustainable and causes exponential growth. This system of interest is to the detriment of many people, our world, its resources and the environment. On the page Why? film number two, explains in clear detail why the system of interest is not benefitting most of the people. Click here to view the film.

2. ASN, Triodos and SNS take part in the old financial system. Fractional Reserve banking is also a part of that system. The old bank system lends out roughly 9 times the deposits (minus 10%). This yields the banks about 45% extra on income from interest. Click here to see a video and know in a few minutes how it really works.

3. From the many yearly reports and publications it can be deduced that ASN, Triodos and SNS banks are less “green” than we generally believe. After the fall of SNS bank this revealed itself in the news again. It appeared that ASN invests only about 2% of all savings in green energy and Triodos 8%. On the basis of the Fair Bank Guide ASN, Triodos and SNS are a good choice IN THE OLD SYSTEM. At least they don’t invest in the arms business or other detrimental affairs. It makes it such a pity that they do charge interest.

The differences between ASN, Triodos, SNS and B of Joy (BOJ) laid out:

1. BOJ does not charge interest but yields F.E.E.S  from natural growth.
2. BOJ does not take part in fractional banking and as full reserve bank only lends out what it receives.
3. BOJ investments put a Good Stewardship of All Life and service first and foremost with as goal: A just society and a healthy economy.
4. BOJ will introduce for its members a 100% fixed value URA currency into circulation as a form of payment.
5. BOJ is a cooperative. Its members all have one vote and the EMC certificate holders are part owners.
6. By rejecting interest payments and fractional reserve banking, BOJ is the only truly sustainable full reserve bank in the Netherlands and most other countries.

3.3. Why are investments in commodities, natural resources, righteous companies and people, inflation-proof ? People 'value' things? And if later more euro's will have to be paid up for an own currency (URA), that is also a kind of interest? So what is the difference with charging interest?

It is true that people attribute value to things. That is why we have chosen to take investments in commodities, natural resources, righteous enterprise and people as underlying values when issuing the new currency URA. People always use these underlying values and their origin is not subject to interest rate and inflation. The sun is the sun and cotton is cotton. In this sense we use the term 'fixed value'. If the value of the URA in relation to the euro is higher after a while then this is due to inflation and interest charges on the euro. The URA does not increase in value, but the euro declines in real value.

 

B of Joy (BOJ) will make saving investment accounts available. The revenue will be used to invest in the real economy and society. Clean energy, healthy food, clean drinking water and affordable housing are examples. The revenues on these savings we call F.E.E.S. Next to Financial returns, the investments give Ecological, Emotional and Social returns. There is much to share about what the activities of BOJ will be and how it will be done. On request, we will keep you informed.  

 

 

3.4. All the capital invested by B of Joy supporters, member-certificate holders and participants is kept on a Dutch bank account as long as the banking permit is still to be acquired. What happens if these banks fail?

Our grass-roots initiative of professionals, B of Joy (BOJ) will only hold minimal amounts of capital in banks that fall under the EU bail-in regime. Read this link to find out what the bail-in regime is all about. In addition, the European Central Bank (ECB) takes over the power over all banks within the EU. It can be read on the internet. On its own website. The ECB says that there are plans to form a fiscal, economic and political union, next to the banking union. The ECB is, and always will be, a private company which also enjoys complete independence.

The list of arguments why not to hold too much money anywhere in the EU is a long one. By following big money, the solution presented itself. We protect our money by banking in the same places as all the multinationals, other banks, the nobility and royal families and the most powerful families on earth do their banking. In these locations, the powerful are not about to make themselves victims. Big money knows what it’s doing. The only difference with the BOJ is that we are totally transparent with the Dutch tax office. With this, we have an extra legal witness and back-up of our money. A few safe havens where the EU has no control are for example: City of London, Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man.

 

 

3.5. What are the prospects for a banking permit for B of Joy?

The prospects of the acquisition of a banking permit are good. This is because of our high level international network and the thorough research done during the last few years. We haven’t made ourselves dependant on the Dutch Central Bank (DNB). In practice it appears that almost every new grass roots initiative perishes through DNB. In the article ‘Banking? We’ll do it ourselves’ you can read this in the 6th paragraph:

Whoever wants to set up a bank in the Netherlands will have a hard time doing so. Since the crisis there has appeared only one new bank in the Netherlands: Knab from the insurance company Aegon that already had a banking permit. Other initiatives from outside the ‘establishment’ have perished. Full article can be read here.

The article is about NewB and The Financial Cooperative, (De Financiële Coöperatie - DFC) that are collecting members and capital to start up a new bank. Only then will they research how they are going to operate. B of Joy (BOJ) started the other way around. Since 2010 we have been working on a total package to find the right answer to the question: ‘what is needed to start an internet bank from grass roots level up?’

In contrast to NewB and DFC, we don’t need 35 to 60 million euro to comply with the capital requirements for receiving a permit. In addition to a qualified team of people, knowledge of laws and regulations, safe ICT and accommodation, banking software etc, the member base is a pre and a minimum of 1,2 million euro demonstrable equity a requirement.

The last two points are now playing a role and are a very important step in the process of application for the banking permit. Because, as soon as there are 10.000 EMC-holders, the permit will be applied for. After the approval of the application, if all requirements are met, there is an obligation to give out the permit. Then BOJ will be operational as bank.

 

 

3.6. How will the URA be valued in relation to the different types of labour? Will there be a difference in the value of the work of a gardener or a pilot? How far has this been thought out?

The implementation of the URA will take place in phases. In the first phase it will be exchangeable 1 to 1 with the euro. How the underlying value of the URA is built up can be read on the FAQ page at point 3.3. As long as the URA is still coupled to the euro, a wage- and price compensation will be given, because of inflation of the euro. See more about this at: Fixed value saving.

When you get down to the fundamentals: The URA derives its value from the production that we ourselves deliver in hours and labour. For more about this see the currency URA. The URA is available in a closed circle formed by the members of B of Joy (BOJ) cooperative. Through, among other things, the business guide and marketplace, the members can exchange their products and services. They themselves determine how many URA they want to charge or pay.

The URA will be cut loose from the euro as soon as the euro falls into hyperinflation or is no longer needed. From then on we enter the next phase and a circular economy. Through an Annual General Meeting all the members will agree on a revaluation of the URA. How much will a gardener or pilot earn per hour? What does a garbage collector earn? A doctor? That we will decide together, so a fair revaluation is made for each profession.

In the 12 pointes of change an enlarged view can be read under points: 3, 4, 5, 6 and 11, of that which we will already do in a smaller context through the cooperative. In addition to a revaluation of hours and labour for each profession there will be a general profit sharing for all the certificate holders. Therefore, each participant has an interest in the optimal performance of the cooperative in all of its disciplines. BOJ is not the ultimate answer, but offers, with its activities, a bridge towards a new system.

 

 

3.7. Is B of Joy capable of offering its mortgage-form as of yet? Or is it purely an idea that needs further elaboration?

That’s two times “no”. The products on the page www.bofjoy.net/products are ready. And so are the other products which aren’t published online (yet). What’s still missing is 1). Sufficient Supporters (60.000) and / or EMC holders (10.000) and 2). The required bank-permit, in order to be allowed to trade with our products (claimed sums). The 'B of Joy Home Lease-plan' is a version based on the over 200 year old Danish mortgage- model. Our mortgage-model saves about 235.000 euro in a term of validity of 30 years.

 

 

3.8. Can one apply for a mortgage solely based on the income of one’s own business?

After we’ve acquired a bank permit, it’s always possible to apply for the 'B of Joy Home Lease-plan'. That’s also possible with solely the income out of one’s own enterprise. But first we’ll have to gather a minimum sum ourselves. The minimum sum is a very important condition for the application of an internet bank-permit. Please also refer to the points 1.3 and 1.9 and 3.5 on the FAQ page. Also see our service-product for enterprises.

 

 

3.9. Can we already now save money at B of Joy? I’m EMC-holder with a number of certificates.

In The Netherlands we are not allowed to accept Savings (claimable sums) below 100.0000 euro, without a (bank) permit. Members as well as non-members ask this question frequently. Therefore we are in a discussion with a variety of financial groups, to arrive at a solution and offer, for sums under 100.000 euro. As soon as there’s a solution, we will announce this through our media sources.

One can also read about saving money (claimable sums) in a different context at point 1.4 on this FAQ page. It states, among other things : “In order to hold simple payment-, businesslike- and savings accounts (claimable sums) there’s rather a need for permits also”. Sums higher than 100.000 euro we surely can accept in The Netherlands. Concerning that topic, please refer to our unique Bail-free product. Please read also point 3.0.

 

 

4.0. Do you know the Euro Pacific bank? This bank doesn’t make use of interest also and at the same time it’s available to put money aside in a safe way and is located outside of Europe. Isn’t a bank in Jersey/Guernsey more vulnerable because it’s located in Europe?

We know the Euro Pacific bank belonging to goldman Peter Schiff. The Schiff family emigrated in 1865 to America. The Warburgs, Kuhn Loebs, Goldman Sachs, Schiffs and Rothchilds are connected to each other in one big bankers-family through marriage. In that sense, the Euro Pacific bank is powerful and holds much expertise. This can be a plus. Unfortunately, we haven’t any personal relationship with those we mentioned earlier. Besides, there’s an obligation to pay a high price, for parking money under the cover of gold. This is accompanied by a risk, for the exchange rate of gold is manipulative.

The money that is in our trust will be exposed as less as possible to extra costs and risk. We’d rather bank with relations that we know personally, on locations within Europe, but most often (statutory) outside the EU. In the first place, our goal was exclusively aimed at safeguarding the (member) amounts. This means aiming at the reservation of the demand for capital, for the application of the required bank-permit. As a result, also the Bail-free product was created, so that people with a minimum of 100.000 euro also are welcome. It’s recommended to read the page Bail-free product and FAQ point 3.4, for more background info.

 

 

4.1. I’ve read that 10% transaction tax must be paid, over each received euro. Does this also apply when one receives money or transfers money through one’s bank-account? Isn’t that quite a lot?

We cannot find anywhere information about what you are writing. During our lectures we explain minutely when the 10% transaction tax (TT) is applicable, in relation to the euro. This is the case i.e. after the value-added tax (VAT) and tax on labour will be abolished. Please refer to the webpage Tax-system. TT is not applicable on receiving or payment of money in itself. TT is exclusively applicable during the exchange of products, services and merchandise, exchanged between owners.

 

 

4.2. There are people active with the Deposit Bank. Is it a good idea to co-operate?

Cooperation is considered as improbable until this day, because the perspectives are too far apart. B of Joy is a savings- and investment-bank with ethical values and service oriented moral goals. The Deposit Bank offers the following services, against payment of costs: savings are offered a “safe” haven and it offers reception- and payment-functions. All the money is parked at ‘De Nederlandsche Bank’ (DNB).

By parking all amounts at the DNB, the power of large banks is strengthened, because the DNB has become a department of the European Central Bank (ECB). The ECB is the clubhouse of all EU Banks. These are all private, profitable corporations, serving their stockholders exclusively. The society and real economy are not served at all. The bankers and the government will be happy with all the amounts of money delivered at the Deposit Bank.

On the Deposit Bank website one can read under the title FAQ “Is it an idea to cooperate with B of Joy?” That it’s not clear to the people behind the Deposit Bank, why the present Deposit Bank goals are favourable for the DNB and other (large) banks within the present financial system.

We repeat: These are all private profitable corporations. Central banks, and thus also DNB, grant loans to banks in order to solve liquidity problems for a short period of time, or for financing short term (bank)investments. Central banks facilitate, just like the banks, also the Fractional banking. And when large banks fall, it’s possible to apply the Bail-in rule through DNB and ECB.

Furthermore, the quoted reference of Peter Blom is not applicable to B of Joy. We will never invest or reinvest in the financial markets. We will exclusively invest in selected sustainable (interest free) fairtrade (we do not grant loans) in the real economy. See our products, among other things.

It is and remains very difficult to obtain a banking-permit in the Netherlands. Bunq has got a bank-permit last year. And that’s special, the last time this happened is more than 10 years ago, when the DSB Bank obtained a banking-permit. The permit already originates in 1980 and was intended for Triodos. Also in this case, the perspectives for B of Joy are quite a lot more advantageous.

 

 

4.3. Through a crowdfunding platform you can easily gather the necessary members. Why not apply this to achieve that goal?

We have done research and have considered to step into crowdfunding platforms. This was exclusively done to point out our manifestation to the people. Our own form of crowdfunding is organized through the page: ‘Join us!’ For B of Joy it is important that there’s a foundation of a minimum of 10.000 members joining us. That’s not only important related to the collection of money for the bank-permit application, but also to ensure the continuity through yearly contributions, after the permit is acquired.

What’s proven to be an obstacle at external crowdfunding as opposed to B of Joy crowdfunding? We encountered maximum times of validity everywhere. We’re considering a time limit. For United People it’s the main and sole interest to gain the B of Joy goal of a cooperative, fairtrade, interestfree bank. Our costs are also considerably lower. With external crowdfunding, the PR, marketing and placement costs for a project, including a success-fee, come as an average between de 5% and 10% of the target amount. 1 million euro would cost between the 50.000 euro and 100.000 euro. Who’s going to pay that sum?

 

 

4.4. I’ve received a B of Joy postcard. In the left corner is a text, John 3:16. Why is that text included? On your website I can’t find anything of that sort. Are you religious?

Through research of Eurostat, the European bureau for statistics, it became clear that about 75% of the European society believes in God as the creator of the Universe. B of Joy and those involved in it are a representation of the European society in the sense of a religious conviction. By the notion God, we understand: the highest and most intelligent entity who became known to us. An omnipotence without a beginning or end. A complete and comprehensive creator for each individual who wishes it.

The publishing of John 3:16 on the B of Joy postcard is on request of our B of Joy initiator. His approach has succeeded. Many people ask about John 3:16. In this case, John 3:16 is symbolic for real pure liberation. Liberation from the present dominating monetary financial system, that is the cause of a lot of distress in this world. Please refer to “Why?” on our website, in order to become familiar with how serious it is. Sometimes, the disbelief will invade your mind.

Original text of John 3:16 is as follows “For God so loved the world that he gave his first Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”. That was written in the time that (almost) everybody was living under the yoke of the Romans and the Sanhedrin. It fits in perfectly into this present time. We are submitted to the yoke of the new Roman empire, the EU, politics and multinationals with money as the new God. Today, liberation is wanted as well.

Jesus broke through illness, hunger, power and each dogma present in the human teachings, in his time. He threw the money-exchangers out of the Temple. He healed people, against the rules of the Sanhedrin, on the Sabbath. It was liberation that Jesus was looking for. He represented the principle of, for and by the people. The love of God offered, through his son Jesus, each form of liberation of humanity. Even death was conquered. John 3:16 is a parable for: “Free and Joyful out of the crisis with a new Bank and Currency.”

 

 

4.5. The B of Joy offers yield (returns) in place of interest. That’s just the same thing with another name? Is there a difference? Can money be interest-free?

The word yield (returns) is often used in terms of interest, but yield is really something altogether different. Interest is a legally enforceable, periodic (monetary) entitlement that is never simultaneously created within the system of money creation out of thin air on the basis of a debt contract. Yield or returns come as “extra’s” from production and investments. Think, for example, of a solar panel or a vegetable garden. These give yearly, on the basis of natural growth, a (local) yield of energy or food.

Yield or returns are not achieved at anybody’s or anything’s expense. It really does add something. You can read about Financial, Ecological, Emotional and Social returns, on the basis of natural growth, on the page FEES. On the website you can read that B of Joy will chiefly be developing local economy’s. You can read more about how money can be interest-free on the page 'The fixed-value URA' at phase 3. By taking control of the money we can again determine our own futures.

 

 

4.6. The URA is just a similar scam like the Euro? It’s all fiat money created from thin air, covered by nothing on the basis of debt contracts?

No, luckily that’s not the case. How the URA functions can be read under the heading “The URA derives its value from the production that we generate through our time and our labour” on the page 'The fixed-value URA' at phase 3 in the 4th paragraph. Forget gold, that is also just an agreement (on trust) just like fiat money. A currency must be based, when you get to the core, on production.

The URA will be issued as cash notes and digitally. Even in phase 1 the URA will have an underlying value because the exchanged euro’s will be invested in, among other things, raw materials, natural energy forces, just entrepreneurship and people. With this we will start a transition. It is not immediately the ultimate, most perfect system or a paradise on earth. It will depend on people themselves for its further growth, just as their awareness does?

 

 

4.7. Can I already make a donation or buy Eternal Member Certificates (EMC’s) via B of Joy with the Florin?

In principle that is possible, if we all choose to work inefficiently. At the moment B of Joy isn’t actually a shop for products or services. Donations or the purchase of EMC certificates are only intended for participation as part-owner, with the goal of attaining the starting capital needed that is a condition before applying for the necessary license. That starting capital has to be in Euro’s.

So what do we get if we start selling EMC’s in Florins? 100 euro divided by the daily exchange rate of the Florin = the purchase price in Florins. This is because we have to exchange the Florins back to Euro’s immediately. In this way more people would have to do more administering (which also costs money) which does not actually contribute to the goals for which the Florin is set up. As soon as we are operational with the URA it becomes a different story. Read also: the URA in practice.

 

 

4.8. Why don’t you use blockchain technology for your new banking initiative?

In collaboration with B of Joy Services and some FinTech companies, United People Foundation (UPF) has started the development of a B of Joy payment app. This external App will be available for the B of Joy Cooperative (SCE) and will features the latest technologies and meets the latest specifications that will have nothing to do with a blockchain network. For more information about the B of Joy payment app. please visit the United People website.

 

 

4.9. What is the difference between Bitcoin and the URA?

Bitcoin is a (crypto) coin which is 'mined' (built up) on the internet via complex algorithmic calculations. These calculations yield a unique unit that we refer to as a digital currency. The digital currency (Bitcoin) is bought and sold through traders. Bitcoin has no underlying value and the fiat money is created from scratch. Bitcoin's value is determined solely by the supply and demand game. Bitcoin is rarely used as a means of payment and is mainly used worldwide as a speculative (gambling) means.

The URA is a "parallel currency" that will coexist with fiat money and crypto coins. The URA is a fixed value currency and ultimately based entirely on human productivity. The 'only' real value within an economic (household) system is man himself. It is man who digs up raw materials and processes them into products. It is man who makes tables, builds houses or offers services. Man is the real value in an economic system. The functioning of the URA is described on the page: The functioning of the URA in practice.

Additional information about the URA can be found via the following links: 1). How is the URA valued in relation to various work? 2). Isn't the URA the same deception as the Euro? 3). What does the URA stand for?